rambling about web 2.0 hell

[wembley]

I've been trying to post to DW more and go on Twitter less, because I'm starting to feel like, in terms of fandom and the internet in general... that you can be where the action is, or you can have sanity, but you can't have both. There's simply too many of us. That's why dogpiles and pretty much everything else is worse, right? Because it's not five or ten or even twenty people yelling at you, it's hundreds or even thousands. Our brains simply weren't built to handle this.

It's been an adjustment, trying to actually write posts again here, whereas on Twitter I could just shart out any thought I was having (usually negative ones) with zero effort. Writing a post is harder, so I'm doing it less... and maybe that's... good? Idk. I know I used to post a lot more when DW/LJ weren't de facto dead and it was the only way to engage (at least in my fandom neck of the woods).

I admit I am enjoying Tumblr post-porn-ban... the porn ban was terrible, and I hate it, but my dash was always too overwhelming in the Before Times. I think it also took me this long to realize that I basically only want my current obsessions on my dash, for the most part, instead of a firehose of everything, so yeah, a decade in and I finally have a mostly-my-current-fandom (Critical Role, at the moment) Tumblr dash experience. I wish you could have a side-dash along when you made a side-blog? I guess that's what tags are, and honestly that's how I generally use the site, especially before -- ignore my dash and just look at the fandom tags.

It's tough, I miss the LJ/DW heyday, it was my preferred mode of fannish engagement and it's been gone for about a decade or more now. I'm kind of hoping that, for those of us Olds that do miss it, if we just kind of... come back here? And let our friends know that we're back here? Than maybe we can cobble together an experience that we enjoy. Like, use Tumblr for reblogging pretty art and pictures, use DW for text-based non-real-time threaded conversations and kink memes and rec lists (remember those?) and community, use Discord for real-time chat (that's where everybody is now anyway), ditch Twitter completely? Since it's... terrible? (This obviously doesn't work if you're an artist. I got no ideas for you, guys, I'm sorry. Unfettered free unlimited image and video uploads are the name of the game now, and it's also kind of killing us, because only for-profit companies can afford that kind of thing, which means we're always in thrall to them, which is bad for fandom, and life.)

This doesn't even touch on the Weird Puritan Thing that's eaten fandom over the past decade or so. Allegedly the pendulum is already swinging back to Yay Edgy Shit on Tumblr, though I'm not sure in what fandoms. Bullying is never going away, it's always been with us and maybe always will... it's just extra aggravating to a lot of us to see the language taken from our values twisted in this way, plus "lol you simply don't know how to read canon correctly, clearly Harry/Hermione is superior" is a lot less hurtful than "lol you're a pedophile".

I just feel like... I mean, there's nothing wrong with Olds like me making secret discord servers that are impossible to find in order to dodge the Junior Anti-Sex League, but... maybe we can also... hang out... here?

I recently saw the argument, and I think I agree with it, that all fandom fights, whether they have a faux-progressive-actually-regressive gloss on them or not, have always been about actual material goods. Kind of like most fights irl, I guess. That interpretation of the source material you hate gets a toehold? The fanon from it spreads and there's less fanfic for you to read that you enjoy. That interpretation of the ship that you hate? Same thing. That video game OC is more popular than yours? It's getting more fanart than you. It was startling to me, because this is the internet, right? It's boundless. You can always be the change, you can always write the fic you want to write or draw the art you want to draw, right? But not all of us are comfortable in our writing or drawing abilities, being the change can be exhausting and... idk, I think the anonymous person who said that was onto something. All of this is just paraphrasing them, btw, none of it is original to me.

Anyway, this has been really incoherent, good night and good luck.

Comments

[dine]

I like your ramblings

I miss the heyday of LJ, but there's a sense of community here that's missing at other social media sites (for me, anyway). it's not as busy, but I feel a better connection with folks here

[wembley]

Thanks!

Yeah, it was always hard for me to find community on Tumblr. I've had good times on Discord, but sometimes you just want threaded convo. Or forums. I'd find out how to make a forum if I wasn't way too lazy to mod anything ever.

[yourlibrarian]

Writing a post is harder, so I'm doing it less... and maybe that's... good?

I think so. I think DW rewards interaction, not rapid posting. In fact, I think many people tend to unsubscribe from people who are constantly posting every day. And you're right that people will probably have to regularly use multiple platforms for what they need.

I don't think this is actually all that different from the LJ days, in fact. I remember when the fandom migration began there a lot of people complained that they didn't want to have to use more than one site. But fans had always done so -- using websites or cloud servers for vids, using Imageshack or Imgur for image hosting, maybe Delicious for organization and newsletter compilations, and using fandom archives as well for either reading or hosting.

[wembley]

I definitely don't mind people posting multiple times a day; I remember that used to be more normal on LJ. I minded it more on Tumblr, but with Tumblr, like... you'd be getting like 10+ things from a person instead of 1-3. (Of course, when I'm sleep-deprived and reblogging a ton of shit, I am also that person.)

But yes, I agree with you that DW dis-incentivizes rapid posting; it's a slower model of fandom, compared with Tumblr and Twitter.

. But fans had always done so

This is a good point!

[thelostglove]

(Hey! I used to be Tripoli, I don't know if you remember me, we hung out in the DC area a few times 2010-2011ish, which is so goddamn long ago. Randomly enough I was thinking of you recently, it's so nice to see your name in my reading page!)

I've been on Tumblr for like a decade as a lurker only and never made it to fannish Twitter at all. I'm vaguely Discord-curious but unsure of where to start and, also, being a fandom retiree is kind of nice. I semi-joke about my Social Media Vow of Silence, but I just hang out by the pool, read whatever I want, and occasionally watch the hustlers hustle. DW, at least the way I use it, is kind of a legacy product for a prior era; I still read it daily and I guess technically it's the only place I participate but yeah it's so, so different than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago on LJ. That's okay, I am too, but I do feel a little sad on occasion that community isn't there in the same way anymore, for some combination of reasons of time passing, fandom changing, and me not putting the effort in.

[thelostglove]

Also potentially of interest: https://3weeks4dreamwidth.dreamwidth.org/

[wembley]

Thanks!

[wembley]

Hey, you! Wow, it's cool to see you!

You are seriously not missing much by not doing fandom on Twitter. It's, imo... not great. I mean, I like checking it out during the Critical Role livestreams to see the live reaction, but... yeah, it's sort of terrible for finding people and community. At least in my experience. Idk, some people are really good at using Tumblr and Twitter for finding people and friends, I'm not. I know artists like Twitter, but I think it's more that they don't have any other choice, or feel like they don't.

Everything you say is well-said and true. Lol, "fandom retireee". Honestly, a Social Media Vow of Silence may be the only way to stay truly sane?

[lesstraveled]

I've been on Tumblr since 2012 and I have not made a single, meaningful friendship on there - everyone I regularly talk to, I knew before or via some other platform. I don't want to make a blanket statement like "it's not conducive to sustained conversations" because plenty of people DO make lasting connections on there and manage plenty of thoughtful Disc Horse TM, just, I guess the thing it's good at and my preferred socialization style do not mesh well together. (The Discord migration of fannish chatter has made me even sadder, because that platform is literally every fucking thing I'm horrible at. I feel like the little Match Girl pressing my nose against the window */dramatic sob)

Anyway all this to say, hello and I'm glad you're making the effort to Be The Change here! I don't know if we have fandoms in common but I'm reading your posts :)

[wembley]

Omg you! <3333 Sorry for taking so long to reply to this! How have you been??! What fandoms are you in these days?

I do enjoy Discord, and that's where most of Ghosts (CBS) fandom is, so that's where I've been spending a lot of time, but I really, really miss the LJ/DW mode, and I definitely understand not enjoying real-time chat. And yeah, I also found Tumblr very difficult, I made 1-2 friends there but in general, all of my fannish friends have come from LJ/DW, the times before that, or Discord.

I'm kind of curious about BobaBoard? It's embracing intense horniness and purposeful-cringe in a way that seems promising. I think it's still closed to the public, though. I would love to peek inside and play around and see if it's for me.

[nonesensed]

I 100% resonate with your summary of fandom right now. I really miss LJ/DW and forums being the "main" fandom spaces. I am very happy we have AO3 now (so many fics have been lost to censorship strikes, private websites going down, etc), but the way social media has developed is so overwhelming that participating in any "fandom" feels like constantly visiting huge conventions smock full of people who're all talking to everyone else in the convention hall. I like conventions, but I can't attend one daily, that is just too overwhelming.

Also, yeah, the general Purity Culture of fandom (which sadly isn't just limited to fandom) is downright frightening. I'm all for being critical of media you like, and for being sensitive of how what you post publicly online can affect other people, buuuuut there's a difference between that and what's going on online right now. And the entitlement of some people, commenting on things they don't like due to pairings/tropes/kinks/etc as if that will somehow make the creator of said thing "change their ways" and produce things that the commenter approves of instead -_-

[wembley]

Sorry for taking ten thousand years to reply to this!

I like conventions, but I can't attend one daily, that is just too overwhelming.

This is such a great point and analogy!

Also, yeah, the general Purity Culture of fandom (which sadly isn't just limited to fandom)

Where else are you seeing it, if you don't mind my asking? Or do you mean in "readers of small-time indie comics/webcomics on Twitter" circles, because I guess I mentally include that with "fandom". Because it's definitely there. Or do you mean YA Book Twitter, lol? Because yeah. Also there.

buuuuut there's a difference between that and what's going on online right now.

Yeeeeeeeeep.

as if that will somehow make the creator of said thing "change their ways" and produce things that the commenter approves of instead -_-

Or, in the case of one notorious bad actor I'm sure we all know about, shivving the competition!

[nonesensed]

No stress! I demand no deadlines for replies to Internet conversations :)

I'm seeing purity culture pop up in a number of places in society on-and offline; for examples, libraries are getting more flack for having "the wrong books" on their shelves (not that they're ever completely free from that, but still). Setbacks against queer people all over the world is also a huge red flag, especially the rise in transphobia and returns to "child grooming" accusations against non-hetero people. It's of course not everyone, but as a bi person who's grown up in a fairly closed-minded small town, that then got way more open-minded over the decades since my birth, the slow drift back to what I think of as The Bad Times is frighteningly clear. BUT while I think being aware of how harmful Purity Culture is, is important, I also try to focus on being hopeful and trying to spread info on why it's bad - 'cause thankfully most people who get mixed up in Purity aren't actively trying to hurt someone, they're just misinformed.

And urgh, yeah, some people really seem to be set on ruining fandom for everyone :( Good thing there are block buttons and blacklists! I'm so happy that AO3 finally has block functions and that they're working on more ways to keep people safe from harassment, even though I personally haven't needed those functions (yet, knock on wood!)

[vriddy]

you can be where the action is, or you can have sanity, but you can't have both.

That is beautifully phrased! I certainly share the sentiment.

[wembley]

Thank you!