what draws shippers to a fandom in the 2020s?

[wembley]

Ghosts (CBS) fandom is really small (around 160 fics on AO3, last I checked; obviously small is relative and your mileage may vary). I don't mean that as a grievance, because at this size, it moves right at my speed. (Like, obviously more fans mean more discussion, more fic and more art, and I'm as greedy as any other fan, but again, that would also mean that the fandom would likely move a little too fast for me.)

But it does make me curious about why it's doing so well ratings-wise, yet that doesn't seem to translate in terms of people joining the fandom. Which made me curious about what drives people to fandom in general (a topic fandom navel-gazers like me have kicked around for decades).

(By "fandom", I mean "fandom the way I do it and participate in it". Fandom contains multitudes. Your way may not be my way. Again, mileage always varies.)

At first I was like, "Well, Ghosts is a sitcom, and sitcoms don't tend to get as big fandoms as sff one-hours." Except Ghosts has sff elements (see the title) and the UK version has a more robust fandom -- not huge, but bigger. But it also has four seasons under its belt, whereas CBS/US version just started its second.

And What We Do In The Shadows, another sff sitcom, feels big (although I just checked AO3 and it's (only?) got 2k stories, vs something like, idk, Stranger Things). And Big Bang Theory had this surge of activity in its early seasons. And How I Met Your Mother seemed to have a lot of activity as well. (Although, at least in terms of fic, BBT is around the same size as WWDITS and HIMYM is between Ghosts CBS and WWDITS).

And I was like, "I wonder what drove people to those fandoms?" And I'm wondering if it's that all of those shows had a group of active shippers that create a kind of Will They Or Won't They energy around their ship where the excitement is about whether or not the characters will get together canonically.

What I remember exciting the Big Bang Theory fans was the non-canon Penny/Sheldon ship. I think -- I wasn't really in the fandom, I just watched the show without interacting, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- but I got the sense that shippers felt it had the potential to become canon? And I don't remember seeing that fandom lap up on my shores anymore once canon torpedoed that ship.

And then my understanding -- again, happy to be corrected -- is that How I Met Your Mother had an active Barney/Robin fandom that felt the ship was likely to go canon, then it did become canon, until they broke up.

And I think that's also the deal in WWDITS? That there's a very active fandom that ships two guys named Nandor(?) and Guillermo(???) (I haven't watched the show, but I hear it's great.) And that the hope is that it becomes canon?

Then you've got behemoth fandom Our Flag Means Death, which has a ship the fandom loves that does get together in canon, but then breaks up, so the Will They Or Won't They is about whether they will get back together next season.

So it's not classic Will They Or Won't They vibes like in Moonlighting or Cheers*, but it's about whether the ship will actually happen on the show at all, or, if it does, if the ship will reunite after a breakup. Which creates suspense and tension and therefore excitement.

And Ghosts (CBS) doesn't have a ship like that. The canon m/f couple, Sam and Jay, are stable. The most popular ship, Nisaac (Isaac/Nigel)... there was a Will They Or Won't They in s1 but the show doesn't center on them, it's an ensemble, so that was sort of just one thread among many and it was a very... gentle? Will They Or Won't They? If that makes sense? And now, Isaac and Nigel are together, and their storyline so far is about them figuring their relationship out, but it doesn't create a "oh god oh god is it gonna happen I need it to happen AUUUUUGH" kind of energy.

Anyway, I wonder if that's what's keeping more people from being enticed in. Not that shipping is the only way to do fandom! Like I said, fandom contains multitudes. But shippers do bring a loooot of energy and excitement and fanworks in. Which doesn't mean other people don't! You get what I'm saying.

ETA: Oh, shit, there was more I meant to say! So if this is what entices shippers to fandoms, and it might not be, but if it is, that's definitely a change in terms of m/m and f/f shipping, because before the 2020s, with very rare exceptions, if you were shipping slash (aka m/m and f/f), there was never a chance your ship would be canon. The energy and enticement came solely from the dynamic; there was no canon narrative about whether a romantic relationship would happen, and there was no meta-narrative from the fandom on whether or not one would happen. It was just, did you like this couple's vibe or not. And I think the vibe appeal is still the #1 thing (probably?), but whether or not your friends are into it and whether or not there's a lot of people and activity to interact with is also a thing, and I wonder if the "will it be canon or not" suspense potential plays into that. I dunno!

*very hip references, I am definitely not an aged crone

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

I can make some guesses about fandom vs overall popularity. In fact, I wrote a meta about it years ago.

As you note, some of the usual reasons such as short runs or comedies tend to affect fanwork creation.

I do agree that shipping has a lot to do with fanfiction in particular, whereas it's less likely to affect vids or fanart.

I actually think that there's a possibility that the two Ghost shows being concurrent may have something to do with its lack of popularity for fanworks because they might be cannibalizing one another? But as Ghosts is pushing the Flower and Thor ship, I can't imagine there's a lot of fan interest there. In fact I seem to remember hearing that Trevor and Pete was in the running with Isaac and Nigel as a top ship.

[wembley]

In fact, I wrote a meta about it years ago.

Ooh, I will have to check that out!

I actually think that there's a possibility that the two Ghost shows being concurrent may have something to do with its lack of popularity for fanworks because they might be cannibalizing one another?

Hmm. I'm not sure. It could be! But I remember hearing, when s1 of CBS Ghosts came out, that BBC fans were really, really negative about it on TikTok, to the point where if you scroll back far enough on Tumblr, you'll see a few memes about people just wanting to be able to enjoy both in peace. So I imagine a lot of the BBC fans noped out early and are just sticking with their preferred version. I know there are people that do enjoy both. (I enjoy the BBC one, but am behind on it, and am clearly not obsessed with it. But it's a well done show!)

But as Ghosts is pushing the Flower and Thor ship, I can't imagine there's a lot of fan interest there.

Yeah, both the canon Will They Or Won't They het ships don't exactly set me on fire, I admit, even though I do think those ships are very cute, and I have a friend that does actively ship Florfinn.

I feel like I read or heard somewhere -- please take this with a huge bucket of salt, it may be totally inaccurate, especially because it kind of depends on how production works on this show, I don't know if they do it old-school and are writing episodes while filming other ones, or if they write the whole season over the summer and then film -- but I feel like I heard that Brandon Scott Jones (Isaac) went to the producers to ask if the show was going to move beyond the "lol Isaac is gay and he thinks no one knows and everyone knows" jokes. And clearly they did, which either means Nigel was always in the works, or Nigel wasn't in the works until Brandon said something. If Nigel was something they came up with after your gay actor playing a gay character says, "Hey, guys, these jokes are a little tired at best," then that would explain why Nigel and Isaac weren't set up and structured from the start as the kind of season-or-more-long Will They Or Won't They that gets shippers super excited, because in that mindset, you're thinking, "Oh, shit, we were being ignorant, let's rectify this" and then you're thinking "well obviously we need to get them together, representation is important." Versus Thor and Flower which gets hinted at in episode 2. Although she tells Thor she loves him in 3. And then we don't really do much with it until ... Trevor's Pants? So... never mind, lol. That's not exactly Our Flag Means Death-esque, either.

And, I mean, from the writers' POV, not having a fanfic-and-fanart/transformative-fanwork-style fandom is clearly not hurting them. It's doing great in the ratings for CBS, the show is totally enjoyable, there's no real reason to do anything differently. And honestly, getting rabid shippers interested in you doesn't always even do positive things for you -- I mean, shit, just look what happened with the Heartstopper actor. Or that thing with SwanQueen shippers and the dude who played Robin Hood. It's not even really a net positive, lol.

I do wonder -- this might just be my shipper/fave goggles being on too tight -- like, in a different version of this show, if Jay hadn't been part of it and instead it was about a single woman who could see the ghosts, if some kind of Trevor/Sam/some other ghost love triangle would have gotten shippers excited. Or if Trevor/Hetty could do that? Maybe? Probably not.

In fact I seem to remember hearing that Trevor and Pete was in the running with Isaac and Nigel as a top ship.

Yep, I am pretty sure Trevor/Pete (Trete! Or as a friend calls it, "tretie" <3) is the second most popular m/m ship. Let's run the numbers!

Nisaac: 72 works out of 164 total.

Trete: 11 works lololololol my god.

I'm looking at your meta! This line, in 2022, is amazing in hindsight: is that SPN is the one fandom distinctive for having the shortest canon.

I like that you have a whole series of meta about fandom, that's very cool! Man, I miss metafandom.

[yourlibrarian]

BBC fans were really, really negative about it on TikTok, to the point where if you scroll back far enough on Tumblr, you'll see a few memes about people just wanting to be able to enjoy both in peace.

That's what I meant though. I mentioned Ghosts to someone and she immediately told me the BBC one was better and she had no interest in a U.S. version of it. I saw the same happen with The Office. So I was thinking more that BBC fandom might be deterring people from giving the U.S. version a try.

Oh that's interesting about the ship with Nigel! I imagine they might have had more prepared from the start just because they had a template to work with. But I can't imagine they did with S2 so it's probably the usual timetable.

Oh yeah, the shipping thing is definitely a double edged sword for shows. If you're doing well, especially on broadcast, there isn't a lot of reason to push it.

Haha, yeah, and it ends up being one of the longest running shows around with an active fandom until the end! However the key aspect to that long run, namely the syndication success, had already happened. So while I don't know how many were thinking 15 seasons, that second life first on cable networks and later on Netflix did a lot to boost it.

[wembley]

That's what I meant though.

Ohhh, I get it now, sorry! Thanks for explaining!

However the key aspect to that long run, namely the syndication success, had already happened. So while I don't know how many were thinking 15 seasons, that second life first on cable networks and later on Netflix did a lot to boost it.

Very good points!

[jajalala]

I mean I think liking a show and wanting to 'do fandom' about it (writing, making art, etc) can be two different things. To me what drives engagement involves the show actually falling short in some area, AKA in the cases u mention these characters NOT getting together even tho it seems like they SHOULD, or their getting together being a will-they-won't-they that never quiiiiite delivers, then I turn to fanworks to fill that hole.

When a piece of media delivers super well, I rarely search out fanworks. If they create a romance that's well done and becomes canon, why would I need to write or read about it? It's right there in the show! So I find myself doing fandom not just about high-quality shows, but about shows that are juuust good enough that I'm invested in the characters, but also have not delivered on the premise/ship that I like.

I'm sure there are others out there that are driven to fandom in a different way, but for me who's driven to fandom in the "what is canon missing?" the will-they-won't-they or the "f/f or m/m ship that will never actually be made canon" makes sense as a drive to the fandom

(And as u said it doesn't HAVE to be ships. I'm not in the Danny Phantom fandom, but from what I understand a lot of it is body horror and digging into the existential crisis of being half-dead and being chased/dissected by your own parents, bc the original show did not really linger on a lot of those thoughts even tho they're very juicy and ripe for angst)

[wembley]

All of this makes total sense! I've definitely heard many fans express the same thing over the years, and I've said similar things myself.

With Our Flag Means Death, which I thought was pretty high-quality, and I thought portrays the most-shipped central relationship well, do you think it's that the show just isn't showing them have sex? Or that because it's a comedy, it's not delivering angst? (Well, there's some angst.)